Comments on: “The Medium is the Message”. yes. yes it is. http://www.amyleblanc.com/2008/12/the-medium-is-the-message-yes-yes-it-is "The future depends entirely on what each of us does every day; a movement is only people moving." --Gloria Steinem Sat, 13 Mar 2010 12:49:08 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: watson http://www.amyleblanc.com/2008/12/the-medium-is-the-message-yes-yes-it-is#comment-37360 watson Sat, 13 Dec 2008 12:00:44 +0000 http://www.amyleblanc.com/?p=3313#comment-37360 thanks for this lesson. didn't know these facts about fairey. food for thought for sure. this is personally interesting to me as a recent music compilation i posted online was packaged with his art exclusively. (contact me if you want the link, i don't want it posted visibly here) in light of these details about fairey, it seems i may have been somewhat unintentionally ironic in the essay i wrote to go along with the compilation. see, one of the topics i explored is the fact that we don't always think carefully about the stimuli which we choose to absorb every day. of course the underlying controversy in this case is *deeply* embedded and well ... not exactly fully fleshed out. (do you for instance have evidence of the nature of the business dealings are with the manufacturers in china? or are we assuming they are as unfair as, say, Gap?) this brings a question to my mind of responsibility. in myself as a media consumer and redistributor, to what extent should i be held accountable for fully understanding the intricacies of what i support or choose not to support? the world is complex. i already have way more on my todo list than i can ever hope to experience/accomplish in my life. i choose to dig deep with one thing (in the case of my compilation, with researching MIA), but potentially miss another. and then what about fairey, the producer of the art? as his name gets bigger and people want to license his work, etc, to what extent should he be held accountable for fully understanding what those people are all about (their views, associations, past dealings etc) before moving ahead? how deep should he go? on the point of your post specifically, i agree that if it's known for sure that fairey is funding unfair labor (but i *really* want to see that we've done due dilligence concerning this point), then, well, this is something he *should* have caught. he might be a busy busy man, but if it is his company that is ordering manufacturing of thousands of garments, he should stick himself in the particular loop of deciding and monitoring where and how that outsourcing takes place. thanks for this lesson. didn’t know these facts about fairey. food for thought for sure.

this is personally interesting to me as a recent music compilation i posted online was packaged with his art exclusively. (contact me if you want the link, i don’t want it posted visibly here) in light of these details about fairey, it seems i may have been somewhat unintentionally ironic in the essay i wrote to go along with the compilation. see, one of the topics i explored is the fact that we don’t always think carefully about the stimuli which we choose to absorb every day. of course the underlying controversy in this case is *deeply* embedded and well … not exactly fully fleshed out. (do you for instance have evidence of the nature of the business dealings are with the manufacturers in china? or are we assuming they are as unfair as, say, Gap?)

this brings a question to my mind of responsibility. in myself as a media consumer and redistributor, to what extent should i be held accountable for fully understanding the intricacies of what i support or choose not to support? the world is complex. i already have way more on my todo list than i can ever hope to experience/accomplish in my life. i choose to dig deep with one thing (in the case of my compilation, with researching MIA), but potentially miss another.

and then what about fairey, the producer of the art? as his name gets bigger and people want to license his work, etc, to what extent should he be held accountable for fully understanding what those people are all about (their views, associations, past dealings etc) before moving ahead? how deep should he go?

on the point of your post specifically, i agree that if it’s known for sure that fairey is funding unfair labor (but i *really* want to see that we’ve done due dilligence concerning this point), then, well, this is something he *should* have caught. he might be a busy busy man, but if it is his company that is ordering manufacturing of thousands of garments, he should stick himself in the particular loop of deciding and monitoring where and how that outsourcing takes place.

]]> By: trix http://www.amyleblanc.com/2008/12/the-medium-is-the-message-yes-yes-it-is#comment-37163 trix Sat, 13 Dec 2008 01:08:02 +0000 http://www.amyleblanc.com/?p=3313#comment-37163 "selling out" is such a distracting phrase. the question is more of a matter of integrity. if you're an artist with a message, your business practices shouldn't come in conflict with your artistic message unless you're trying to be self ironic, which I know shepard is trying to do with the clothing line, but is highly unlikely trying to do with the made in china thing. outsourcing to a country that has serious labor rights violations is a serious violation of his integrity unless he can get things together and do fair trade with china. that'd be awesome if it happens. slightly related musicians with integrity over on my site: http://www.jedimindtrix.net/?p=148 “selling out” is such a distracting phrase.
the question is more of a matter of integrity.
if you’re an artist with a message, your business practices shouldn’t come in conflict with your artistic message unless you’re trying to be self ironic, which I know shepard is trying to do with the clothing line, but is highly unlikely trying to do with the made in china thing.
outsourcing to a country that has serious labor rights violations is a serious violation of his integrity unless he can get things together and do fair trade with china. that’d be awesome if it happens.

slightly related musicians with integrity over on my site: http://www.jedimindtrix.net/?p=148

]]> By: Jedi Mind Trix » artists with integrity http://www.amyleblanc.com/2008/12/the-medium-is-the-message-yes-yes-it-is#comment-37162 Jedi Mind Trix » artists with integrity Sat, 13 Dec 2008 01:07:36 +0000 http://www.amyleblanc.com/?p=3313#comment-37162 [...] Leblanc takes on the same subject with a twist in here post “The Medium is the Message” as she questions political street artist Shepard Fairey’s (Obey) expanded clothing line, [...] [...] Leblanc takes on the same subject with a twist in here post “The Medium is the Message” as she questions political street artist Shepard Fairey’s (Obey) expanded clothing line, [...]

]]> By: amy.leblanc http://www.amyleblanc.com/2008/12/the-medium-is-the-message-yes-yes-it-is#comment-37117 amy.leblanc Fri, 12 Dec 2008 23:15:10 +0000 http://www.amyleblanc.com/?p=3313#comment-37117 it's true. we all sell out, in some shape or form, all the time - some people every day when they go to jobs they don't like for a paycheck (i am fortunate enough to work for a job i believe in, and i'd like to think that i would never do otherwise), other people when they support the corp that they know isn't good to get the thing they think will make their life better, whatever. so yes, perhaps it's wrong of me to hold artists to such a high standard, but again, like i said, this wasn't any artist. this was an artist who touted revolution. it’s true. we all sell out, in some shape or form, all the time - some people every day when they go to jobs they don’t like for a paycheck (i am fortunate enough to work for a job i believe in, and i’d like to think that i would never do otherwise), other people when they support the corp that they know isn’t good to get the thing they think will make their life better, whatever. so yes, perhaps it’s wrong of me to hold artists to such a high standard, but again, like i said, this wasn’t any artist. this was an artist who touted revolution.

]]> By: Jon http://www.amyleblanc.com/2008/12/the-medium-is-the-message-yes-yes-it-is#comment-37105 Jon Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:45:17 +0000 http://www.amyleblanc.com/?p=3313#comment-37105 Years ago Carly Simon said she regretted selling "anticipation" to Heinz Ketsup for a quarter of a million dollars (and god I hope I am not the only one old enough to remember that song/ad campaign). She said it was a tough time in her life and she wanted to make some changes and the offer was good so she did it. But she felt bad about it later. So clearly this selling out thing is hard even for the artists themselves to reconcile and identify (at least to identify in time to prevent it). But to the point of compromising values and integrity, Hell I do that every day for money (and I know I am not alone). It is called a job. If I could sell out for more money doing something I actually enjoy rather than sell out for less money doing something I mostly hate, I'm not sure I could resist. And yet I too cringe when I see an artist I admire "stoop so low" as to sell a song to some evil corporation. Isn't driving to work selling out? Isn't talking to someone professionally when you know they are evil and really deserve a swift kick in the crotch selling out? Is giving one of my employees time of during deer season so he can go hunting instead of firing his ass for even asking if he can go hunting selling out? If selling out is "compromising my integrity and values" then I would say it is. I am just not selling out for enough money to attract anyone else's attention. Years ago Carly Simon said she regretted selling “anticipation” to Heinz Ketsup for a quarter of a million dollars (and god I hope I am not the only one old enough to remember that song/ad campaign). She said it was a tough time in her life and she wanted to make some changes and the offer was good so she did it. But she felt bad about it later. So clearly this selling out thing is hard even for the artists themselves to reconcile and identify (at least to identify in time to prevent it).
But to the point of compromising values and integrity, Hell I do that every day for money (and I know I am not alone). It is called a job. If I could sell out for more money doing something I actually enjoy rather than sell out for less money doing something I mostly hate, I’m not sure I could resist. And yet I too cringe when I see an artist I admire “stoop so low” as to sell a song to some evil corporation. Isn’t driving to work selling out? Isn’t talking to someone professionally when you know they are evil and really deserve a swift kick in the crotch selling out? Is giving one of my employees time of during deer season so he can go hunting instead of firing his ass for even asking if he can go hunting selling out? If selling out is “compromising my integrity and values” then I would say it is. I am just not selling out for enough money to attract anyone else’s attention.

]]> By: amy leblanc http://www.amyleblanc.com/2008/12/the-medium-is-the-message-yes-yes-it-is#comment-37082 amy leblanc Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:20:36 +0000 http://www.amyleblanc.com/?p=3313#comment-37082 "There is the art and there is the business of the art." agreed. however, the question i have then is that once an artist becomes a businessperson, is it inappropriate to expect them to keep consistent value systems between the two? i understand the part about art being "outside" an artist once it is released; you can't control how people interpret it or what someone else may do with it. you seem to suggest that once an artist becomes a businessperson, though, that they also relinquish some of that control, due to the "forces of business". that is where i think more artists could be a bit more stalwart and not let their marketing/branding teams push their business out to a point that it conflicts with their personal and artistic values. thx for your input; i'm sure a lot more artists would have a lot to say about this as well. “There is the art and there is the business of the art.”

agreed. however, the question i have then is that once an artist becomes a businessperson, is it inappropriate to expect them to keep consistent value systems between the two? i understand the part about art being “outside” an artist once it is released; you can’t control how people interpret it or what someone else may do with it. you seem to suggest that once an artist becomes a businessperson, though, that they also relinquish some of that control, due to the “forces of business”. that is where i think more artists could be a bit more stalwart and not let their marketing/branding teams push their business out to a point that it conflicts with their personal and artistic values.

thx for your input; i’m sure a lot more artists would have a lot to say about this as well.

]]> By: Holden http://www.amyleblanc.com/2008/12/the-medium-is-the-message-yes-yes-it-is#comment-37076 Holden Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:03:37 +0000 http://www.amyleblanc.com/?p=3313#comment-37076 By saying that Fairey is compromising his integrity, values and what his art "stands for"...you're purporting to actually know and understand the complexity of these notions. I don't think that's as much of a hard line as it is overly simplistic when applied to art and artists. Once the work exists and is finished, it is inherently "outside" of the artist, anyway. There is no one single "true" meaning. And the interpretations can change over time, generations, between viewers, groups, etc. I don't believe in the concept of selling out, I just believe in art. If you're going to dog him as a businessman outsourcing to China, do that. There is the art and there is the business of the art. They are wedded, but not inextricable. -Holden By saying that Fairey is compromising his integrity, values and what his art “stands for”…you’re purporting to actually know and understand the complexity of these notions.

I don’t think that’s as much of a hard line as it is overly simplistic when applied to art and artists.

Once the work exists and is finished, it is inherently “outside” of the artist, anyway. There is no one single “true” meaning. And the interpretations can change over time, generations, between viewers, groups, etc.

I don’t believe in the concept of selling out, I just believe in art.

If you’re going to dog him as a businessman outsourcing to China, do that. There is the art and there is the business of the art. They are wedded, but not inextricable.

-Holden

]]> By: amy leblanc http://www.amyleblanc.com/2008/12/the-medium-is-the-message-yes-yes-it-is#comment-37064 amy leblanc Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:17:43 +0000 http://www.amyleblanc.com/?p=3313#comment-37064 it is a tough line to draw jon, but to me, the point of selling out is not that you've sold something for money. i understand that artists need to make money, and selling your art for money is not wrong. i'd love it if more of our consumer culture revolved around making, buying, and selling art to one another. in fact, it's a large part of my community and how i spend my time in SF and i support art as a business wholeheartedly. to me, "selling out" is not simply about exchange of currency. it is about compromising your integrity, your values, and what you/your art stands for in exchange for currency. in this case, fairey's art had a very "rage against the machine" and pro-american democracy message, and now suddenly there's outsourcing to china. that, to me, is selling out. call it a hard line position, but that's how i see it. it is a tough line to draw jon, but to me, the point of selling out is not that you’ve sold something for money. i understand that artists need to make money, and selling your art for money is not wrong. i’d love it if more of our consumer culture revolved around making, buying, and selling art to one another. in fact, it’s a large part of my community and how i spend my time in SF and i support art as a business wholeheartedly.

to me, “selling out” is not simply about exchange of currency. it is about compromising your integrity, your values, and what you/your art stands for in exchange for currency. in this case, fairey’s art had a very “rage against the machine” and pro-american democracy message, and now suddenly there’s outsourcing to china. that, to me, is selling out. call it a hard line position, but that’s how i see it.

]]> By: Jon http://www.amyleblanc.com/2008/12/the-medium-is-the-message-yes-yes-it-is#comment-36714 Jon Fri, 12 Dec 2008 00:59:55 +0000 http://www.amyleblanc.com/?p=3313#comment-36714 The concept of selling out is interesting to me. It is hard to define what selling out is (vs. making an appropriate living). One person's sell out is another person's paying the rent. I am not defending it. Scott Adams (Dilbert) sold out. Matt Stone and Trey Parker (South Park) sold out. But when? When they first accepted money for their art? When they accepted A LOT of money for their art? When they merchandised? It is not clear to me. Also, some folks who should know better over look issues involved which are obvious to others (Al Gore eats meat, for example) and it leaves you wondering whether these people are hypocrites, uniformed, or sell outs. I am not arguing against your being ill at ease with this China made clothing at all. I am just genuinely confused and fascinated by the concept of selling out. Money sucks... the rest is just a matter of degree. The concept of selling out is interesting to me. It is hard to define what selling out is (vs. making an appropriate living). One person’s sell out is another person’s paying the rent. I am not defending it. Scott Adams (Dilbert) sold out. Matt Stone and Trey Parker (South Park) sold out. But when? When they first accepted money for their art? When they accepted A LOT of money for their art? When they merchandised? It is not clear to me. Also, some folks who should know better over look issues involved which are obvious to others (Al Gore eats meat, for example) and it leaves you wondering whether these people are hypocrites, uniformed, or sell outs. I am not arguing against your being ill at ease with this China made clothing at all. I am just genuinely confused and fascinated by the concept of selling out. Money sucks… the rest is just a matter of degree.

]]> By: amy leblanc http://www.amyleblanc.com/2008/12/the-medium-is-the-message-yes-yes-it-is#comment-36663 amy leblanc Thu, 11 Dec 2008 22:16:19 +0000 http://www.amyleblanc.com/?p=3313#comment-36663 right, Miu, the t-shirts have been around for a good while, and as their customer service email response states, the t-shirts are made in the U.S. it's the weird full-on head-to-toe clothing line that is new, and IMO, a divergent interest. as for him being sick: my life-partner-in-crime is also an insulin dependent diabetic, and i know how much it costs to maintain, and potentially how much it can cost when diabetes complications kick in. i don't however accept that as an excuse. there are plenty of ways for an artist as high-profile as shepard fairey to make money without putting his logo all over skinny jeans made in china. right, Miu, the t-shirts have been around for a good while, and as their customer service email response states, the t-shirts are made in the U.S. it’s the weird full-on head-to-toe clothing line that is new, and IMO, a divergent interest.

as for him being sick: my life-partner-in-crime is also an insulin dependent diabetic, and i know how much it costs to maintain, and potentially how much it can cost when diabetes complications kick in. i don’t however accept that as an excuse. there are plenty of ways for an artist as high-profile as shepard fairey to make money without putting his logo all over skinny jeans made in china.

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